theophiles.org - Job opp at BibleGateway.com

Written by Entity

Wednesday, 12 August 2009 13:27

Normally I wouldn't post this, but I know times have not been friendly to many of us and it seems like a good mixture of technology and religion. This is a senior software development (PHP/C++/Java, databases) position reporting directly to the VP Software Engineering at BibleGateway. Location for this position is flexible (anywhere in U.S.). Candidate must be comfortable and excels in working and collaborating with virtual teams. See LinkedIn for more details.

Comments

grizzly

|2009-08-12 14:41:10

I didn't realize that BibleGateway.com was an "online media startup", since it was created in 1993.

I also didn't know that it is owned by News Corp, albeit through a chain of subsidiaries:

BibleGateway.com -> Zondervan, LLC -> HarperCollins Publishers -> News Corp -> Rupert Murdoch

Still, it might be interesting to work for them. :)

Hmm... Preferred Requirements: MS/PhD in Computer Science - that's unusual.

Entity - re:

|2009-08-12 14:58:22

grizzly wrote:

Hmm... Preferred Requirements: MS/PhD in Computer Science - that's unusual.

I know. I always figured Masters and PhDs were for fields where one could not find employment with only a Bachelors. I don't know too many people who have advanced degrees in computer science as they learned more advanced material at a quicker rate and got paid for it when they had a job.

grizzly

|2009-08-12 15:55:15

I know what you mean. I don't even have a BS in CompSci. My (double) degree is in Biochem and Math, and I left grad school (without either an MS or PhD) to become a programmer. I've been programming ever since, for 14 years, with my only education being a minor in CompSci. It's all self-taught. The techniques that I use now weren't even invented yet when I was in school (design patterns, test-driven development, etc). OOP had just come out, and I was in the first class there to learn it.

OrionBlastar - Higher degrees

|2009-08-12 17:42:26

are just a way to discriminate against people. Most of the time just an Associates in Data processing aka Information Systems with a programming option is good enough to have enough knowledge to work a programming job like that.

You'd need a PHD or Masters for the VP of IS, not for a programmer. Experience should be the area that seals the deal, the one with the most experience and knowledge (determined via tests and background checks) should be candidates for the job.

I know a lot of people without college degrees that got into programming or have a degree in something else but are programmers. But since 1999 they stopped allowing the Associates to be minimal and required a Bachelors and now some jobs require a Masters or PDH.

Bachelors = BS, Masters = More BS, PHD = Piled Higher and Deeper. None of them teach you the real life skills and experience you need for a job like the one mentioned in this article.

PerpetualAgnostic

|2009-08-24 21:48:32

I disagree with lots of what you said.

First, going through a decent Masters or PhD program does change the way you think, especially your capacity to do good, publication-worthy research. I've learned a lot in grad school.

This doesn't mean that everyone with a postgraduate degree is more capable than anyone without one. But if you told me nothing at all about two people except for their level of education, and I had to hire one of them, I think going for the person with the higher education is a pretty reasonable strategy.

As far as being a VP of IS, a Masters might help, but almost certainly not a PhD. Most of what a PhD does is prepare you to do research, which in my experience a VP of IS does not do. I'd much rather have a VP of IS who had a MS in the relevant technical area + an MBA. I want a VP who knows how to budget, how to manage staff well, etc. Not a VP who's irritated that those things are taking him away from his research program :)

So to summarize my experience:

* bachelors = Probably can program, probably can't do good research independently.

* masters = May be well-primed to do programming in certain difficult application areas (distributed transactions, etc.), has a chance of doing good research independently.

* phd = May be a good programmer, but may also not have enough interest in programming to care a lot about good software engineering skills. Can almost certainly do good independent research.

So unless there's something really peculiar about the BibleGateway job, I suspect they're making a mistake by calling for advanced degrees. I mean, it just just a standard website, right?

PerpetualAgnostic

|2009-08-24 21:39:03

I started with a double bachelors in math and CS. I worked as a programmer for a few years before realizing that I wanted more stimulation than daily grunt programming necessarily provided.

So I spent 5 years getting my masters while working full-time, and that was good. I would have liked to go on to my PhD, but my school (Brown) wouldn't let me do a PhD part-time, and I couldn't afford to do it full-time.

So fast forward a few years, and the grad school bug bit me again, so I'm now in a part-time PhD program will still working full-time. But once nice thing is that the progression of school work has helped me get increasingly research-like jobs.

So at least for me, it's not that I can't program, it's just that it was under-stimulating.

OrionBlastar - More and more companies are now requiring PHDs

|2009-08-25 00:26:11

it seems to be the best way to screen applications for jobs now. Require a PHD and it cuts through the resumes and weeds out about 90% to 95% of them.

Companies can get anywhere from 500 to 5000 resumes a week. So they kept raising the requirements. This has happened since the Dotcom busts of the late 1990's and when many IT and Engineering jobs went overseas and too many people took up Computer Science and Engineering and not enough jobs are available.

But earning a PHD degree means a huge debt in student loans.

It used to be a PHD degree meant a person was "overqualified", but now it seems to be a requirement?

I remember before the Dotcom bust usually an Associate or Bachelors degree was good enough. But now it has become ridiculous.

PerpetualAgnostic - re: More and more companies are now requiring PHDs

|2009-08-25 07:46:40

OrionBlastar wrote:

I haven't seen what you're describing. The tightening of job descriptions that I've seen has been the requirement for requiring more years with a given language/tool, and/or requiring experience with more languages/tools. I could probably count on one hand the # of job postings that seems to require a PhD for a programming position.

The only think similar to what you're describing, that I've seen, is job descriptions saying something like "Masters/PhD degree preferred". But that's not the same as a requirement.

OrionBlastar wrote:

But earning a PHD degree means a huge debt in student loans.

That's almost never the case. In almost all circumstances, full-time graduate students are paid to be students. They get teaching or research assistanceships that cover tuition and cost of living. I think at Brown it was even pretty substantial, something like tuition + $30k/year + health insurance.

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Our valuable member Entity has been with us since Thursday, 03 April 2008.

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